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	<title>Comments on: Magento eCommerce &#8211; Bloated or Brilliant?</title>
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	<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/</link>
	<description>Web Development, SEO and Internet Entrepreneurship</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:02:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: glasgoweb</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-1710</link>
		<dc:creator>glasgoweb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-1710</guid>
		<description>magento is a great option for customers, but can cost losts, i still think developers are rippin people off, for example i offer a 500 products , site design based on a template of customers choice , fully set up with paypal, google checkout and third party payment system, all for 2000 dollars. 

Some designers charge far too much , and do very little other than buy a template strip it out and add a few new items to make it look all diffrent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>magento is a great option for customers, but can cost losts, i still think developers are rippin people off, for example i offer a 500 products , site design based on a template of customers choice , fully set up with paypal, google checkout and third party payment system, all for 2000 dollars. </p>
<p>Some designers charge far too much , and do very little other than buy a template strip it out and add a few new items to make it look all diffrent</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-1532</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-1532</guid>
		<description>My thoughts exactly!!

Fantastic article!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts exactly!!</p>
<p>Fantastic article!!</p>
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		<title>By: Joachim</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-1446</link>
		<dc:creator>Joachim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-1446</guid>
		<description>Magento is a developer&#039;s tool for big bussiness. Big leeague, big bucks. Open source is just testing phase.
U can judge it only by that criterion : large scale (enterprise) enviroment.
So, its a specific product that soon will stop being open source.

For other usage its - waste of time and money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Magento is a developer&#8217;s tool for big bussiness. Big leeague, big bucks. Open source is just testing phase.<br />
U can judge it only by that criterion : large scale (enterprise) enviroment.<br />
So, its a specific product that soon will stop being open source.</p>
<p>For other usage its &#8211; waste of time and money.</p>
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		<title>By: Redstage</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-1244</link>
		<dc:creator>Redstage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-1244</guid>
		<description>Not going to get technical here but we have grown to really enjoy working with Magento and our clients are happy with the end result.  We have figured out how to customize and work with Magento to meet customers&#039; expectations at every level.  Agreed, it&#039;s very complicated but it&#039;s also extremely powerful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not going to get technical here but we have grown to really enjoy working with Magento and our clients are happy with the end result.  We have figured out how to customize and work with Magento to meet customers&#8217; expectations at every level.  Agreed, it&#8217;s very complicated but it&#8217;s also extremely powerful.</p>
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		<title>By: mrknister</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>mrknister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-925</guid>
		<description>The main problem is:
OO to perfection means NO reuse at all.

* Try to not emply one of the checkout stages -&gt; impossible

* Try to use the datagrids in a different project -&gt; impossible

* Try to disable the banners left and right, as well as product compare and wishlist -&gt; 6 hours down the toilet.

* Try to make a new checkoutmodule for a specific payment provider? -&gt; impossible (it took my payment provider 8 month to come up with a plugin after they started development)

* Change 4 small things in a template -&gt; you will change directories at least 80 times!

* Try to have a bikini with 10 options that all have stocktracking -&gt; impossible to maintain.

-&gt; Impossible means not undoable but not at all practical.

Yes I do have a lot of experience zend certified and have implemented 10 custom stores with at least 200 products each.

There is some russian in this cartsystem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main problem is:<br />
OO to perfection means NO reuse at all.</p>
<p>* Try to not emply one of the checkout stages -&gt; impossible</p>
<p>* Try to use the datagrids in a different project -&gt; impossible</p>
<p>* Try to disable the banners left and right, as well as product compare and wishlist -&gt; 6 hours down the toilet.</p>
<p>* Try to make a new checkoutmodule for a specific payment provider? -&gt; impossible (it took my payment provider 8 month to come up with a plugin after they started development)</p>
<p>* Change 4 small things in a template -&gt; you will change directories at least 80 times!</p>
<p>* Try to have a bikini with 10 options that all have stocktracking -&gt; impossible to maintain.</p>
<p>-&gt; Impossible means not undoable but not at all practical.</p>
<p>Yes I do have a lot of experience zend certified and have implemented 10 custom stores with at least 200 products each.</p>
<p>There is some russian in this cartsystem.</p>
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		<title>By: Carey</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-922</link>
		<dc:creator>Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-922</guid>
		<description>Hi Sebastian

I believe that Magento does offer a lot of very good features but not necessarily flexibility. I have often found it very difficult to make &quot;quick changes&quot; in Magento including very simple things such as layout and text changes.

Once a developer has got used to the system they will no doubt be quicker than when they had first looked at the system. However I do see that there is a limit to how quick things can be with Magento - when adding features there are often many things to consider including xml files, using correct case for models/controllers etc. and even creating redundant files to adhere to the system architecture.

There are also issues with debugging and fixing - quite often a developer will delve into the database or just output a few variables to see what is going on. Because of the deeply nested class and inheritance structure it is often extremely difficult to &quot;step through&quot; the code to figure out where the problem code is.

The database is equally as complex which has taken away the ability to explore it to find/fix problems.

No matter how much experience you have with Magento I believe that is still quicker and more cost effective to work with other open-source eCommerce solutions.

I do not recommend Magento for use in a business for the following reasons:
* The majority of developers will need to start from scratch to understand the system
* If a developer leaves, it is a big job finding someone else and training them up
* Skills with Magento are generally non-transferable meaning developers are not gaining as much experience as they could do with other systems. This also means a smaller pool of talent for you to choose from.
* Developing with Magento will always be slower than developing with other less bloated systems

I hope that helps and if you need any more advice let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sebastian</p>
<p>I believe that Magento does offer a lot of very good features but not necessarily flexibility. I have often found it very difficult to make &#8220;quick changes&#8221; in Magento including very simple things such as layout and text changes.</p>
<p>Once a developer has got used to the system they will no doubt be quicker than when they had first looked at the system. However I do see that there is a limit to how quick things can be with Magento &#8211; when adding features there are often many things to consider including xml files, using correct case for models/controllers etc. and even creating redundant files to adhere to the system architecture.</p>
<p>There are also issues with debugging and fixing &#8211; quite often a developer will delve into the database or just output a few variables to see what is going on. Because of the deeply nested class and inheritance structure it is often extremely difficult to &#8220;step through&#8221; the code to figure out where the problem code is.</p>
<p>The database is equally as complex which has taken away the ability to explore it to find/fix problems.</p>
<p>No matter how much experience you have with Magento I believe that is still quicker and more cost effective to work with other open-source eCommerce solutions.</p>
<p>I do not recommend Magento for use in a business for the following reasons:<br />
* The majority of developers will need to start from scratch to understand the system<br />
* If a developer leaves, it is a big job finding someone else and training them up<br />
* Skills with Magento are generally non-transferable meaning developers are not gaining as much experience as they could do with other systems. This also means a smaller pool of talent for you to choose from.<br />
* Developing with Magento will always be slower than developing with other less bloated systems</p>
<p>I hope that helps and if you need any more advice let me know.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-920</guid>
		<description>Hi Carey,

Thanks for your point of view on Magento. I&#039;d like to hear your opinion on something:

You stated Magento is bad in reaching its goals as it does not allow the community and developers to easily get used to it. On the other side, you seemed to make the impression on me that you still think that the complexity of Magento allows for a lot of flexibility once you know how it all works together. Or did I misunderstand?

Now at first, the complexity and steep learning curve seems to be a disadvantage for any business since the development costs for the launch increase. However, what if you as a developer get used to the code and are then able to quickly implement changes? Would you be able to implement these changes in a more timely fashion than if you had to work on any other open-source ecommerce solution?

If you were, this would most likely be a greater business advantage and could make up for the initial development costs. I &#039;d like to hear your take on that. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carey,</p>
<p>Thanks for your point of view on Magento. I&#8217;d like to hear your opinion on something:</p>
<p>You stated Magento is bad in reaching its goals as it does not allow the community and developers to easily get used to it. On the other side, you seemed to make the impression on me that you still think that the complexity of Magento allows for a lot of flexibility once you know how it all works together. Or did I misunderstand?</p>
<p>Now at first, the complexity and steep learning curve seems to be a disadvantage for any business since the development costs for the launch increase. However, what if you as a developer get used to the code and are then able to quickly implement changes? Would you be able to implement these changes in a more timely fashion than if you had to work on any other open-source ecommerce solution?</p>
<p>If you were, this would most likely be a greater business advantage and could make up for the initial development costs. I &#8216;d like to hear your take on that. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-685</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-685</guid>
		<description>It sounds like you know what your talking about...

I understood exactly what you meant when there was no &quot;clear flow&quot;

Call me old skool, but I like editing one piece of video next to other to build a clean storyline... I don&#039;t care if the technology is non-linear... the story still has to be followed in a straight line...

Seperate your data and you logic... sure... but why abstract your logic from the game plan?

Kind of joking... but not really... I will think twice about starting a new life long career as a magento &quot;employee&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like you know what your talking about&#8230;</p>
<p>I understood exactly what you meant when there was no &#8220;clear flow&#8221;</p>
<p>Call me old skool, but I like editing one piece of video next to other to build a clean storyline&#8230; I don&#8217;t care if the technology is non-linear&#8230; the story still has to be followed in a straight line&#8230;</p>
<p>Seperate your data and you logic&#8230; sure&#8230; but why abstract your logic from the game plan?</p>
<p>Kind of joking&#8230; but not really&#8230; I will think twice about starting a new life long career as a magento &#8220;employee&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RTConcept &#187; Magento Notes &#8211; Part 2: Development tools</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>RTConcept &#187; Magento Notes &#8211; Part 2: Development tools</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-651</guid>
		<description>[...] a not a secret that Magento is complex and has a quite steep learning curve. Part of that problem stems from the fact that there [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a not a secret that Magento is complex and has a quite steep learning curve. Part of that problem stems from the fact that there [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Pokress</title>
		<link>http://www.pickledshark.com/magento-ecommerce-complicated-bloated-brilliant/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Pokress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pickledshark.com/?p=41#comment-158</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m also looking at Magento, but have been working for a while with Intespire Shopping Cart (http://www.interspire.com/shoppingcart). It&#039;s code is super clean and logical, it&#039;s easy to customize, and offers a rich feature set, a visual design environment, and range of out-of-the-box templates. The multi-domain store aspect and support for virtual (non-downloadable) products are the two huge things this has for our mid-level enterprise that are making me salivate, but we&#039;re going to need to customize things along the way so you commentary on what this might take was very helpful ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m also looking at Magento, but have been working for a while with Intespire Shopping Cart (<a href="http://www.interspire.com/shoppingcart">http://www.interspire.com/shoppingcart</a>). It&#8217;s code is super clean and logical, it&#8217;s easy to customize, and offers a rich feature set, a visual design environment, and range of out-of-the-box templates. The multi-domain store aspect and support for virtual (non-downloadable) products are the two huge things this has for our mid-level enterprise that are making me salivate, but we&#8217;re going to need to customize things along the way so you commentary on what this might take was very helpful &#8230;</p>
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